(23 Jan 2025)
RESTRICTION SUMMARY:
++ONLINE INTERVIEW++
++SOUNDBITES SEPARATED BY BLACK FRAMES++
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Swansea, Wales – 22 January 2025
1. SOUNDBITE (English) Stuart MacDonald, professor of law at Swansea University:
"The Prime Minister’s statement yesterday shone a light on an issue that Prevent (The government-led, multi-agency Prevent programme aims to stop individuals becoming terrorists) practitioners and Prevent commentators have been aware of for a few years now. And it’s the issue of mainly young people glorifying violence and glorifying perpetrators of mass casualty attacks. And this difficult question of whether they can then be said to be ideologically motivated and whether this morbid fascination with violence and with perpetrators of violence is in itself an ideology."
++BLACK FRAMES++
2. SOUNDBITE (English) Stuart MacDonald, professor of law at Swansea University:
"You have this individual and he was referred to Prevent, apparently, but these referrals were not accepted because he was not regarded as posing a terrorist risk because of the question of whether he was ideologically motivated."
++BLACK FRAMES++
3. SOUNDBITE (English) Stuart MacDonald, professor of law at Swansea University:
"The Prime Minister’s announcement does invite us to think through whether ideological motivation should be part of the definition of terrorism. But removing that from the definition would also be quite a controversial move, because for many people, a political or ideological motive is the defining feature of terrorism, and it’s what distinguishes other types of serious violence, such as organized crime from terrorist violence. And it’s what makes terrorist violence uniquely serious and what then warrants the special panoply of terrorist related powers."
++BLACK FRAMES++
4. SOUNDBITE (English) Stuart MacDonald, professor of law at Swansea University:
"I think in the past few years there has been this growing acceptance of what are called mixed, unclear and unstable ideologies. And this, I think, has been a reaction to this concern and this felt need that some individuals didn’t have a clear ideological motivation but are still at risk of committing acts of mass violence. So that that’s one approach to it, to loosen our understanding of what counts as an ideology. I don’t think that’s an entirely coherent approach."
++ENDS ON SOUNDBITE++
STORYLINE:
Six months after a teenage attacker stabbed three girls to death at a children’s dance class in England, new details about his background have sparked questions about how authorities repeatedly failed to spot the threat he posed.
Officials revealed this week that Axel Rudakubana, 18, had been convicted of assault at school, was obsessed with violence and referred to counterterrorism officials multiple times before his attack shocked the nation.
Prime Minister Keir Starmer has said that shows how Britain’s counterterrorism strategy needs a complete rethink.
Rudakubana’s referrals followed evidence that he had expressed interest in school shootings, the 2017 London Bridge attack, the Irish Republican Army and the Middle East.
But the government said that because the teen did not fit into existing ways of understanding terrorism — he was a loner who did not show a clear adherence to an extremist ideology or an organized group — officials did not flag him as a serious threat.
Stuart MacDonald, professor of law at Swansea University who studies online extremism, said the issue was whether a "morbid fascination" with violence and with perpetrators of violence is in itself an "ideology."
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